The last true Brit?
I've lived in the USA for 30 years, as such I'm very surprised that 'the old country' is calmly accepting the situation that when driving cars, camera's can now follow them everywhere they go. The invasion of rights wouldn't be accepted so calmly over here in the USA. My son, a law student don't you know, says that the reason why it wouldn't be accepted is because "Americans are now more British than the British."
The reasoning behind my sons opinion is that the U.S. Constitution froze the attitude of Britain, in place, over 200 years ago. It happened because a group of British men got pissed off at the British government, told it to go to hell, and wrote America's Constitution. At that time the British wanted, and even demanded, much more freedom than the British seem to want now.
As such, the founding fathers wrote The Constitution representing the British attitude toward personal freedoms, and the role of government, that was held by the British around two hundred years ago. The founding fathers wrote the American Constitution in the spirit of the British attitude that prevailed at that time, hence the attitude of the British, at that time, was frozen in place for all time in the USA.
It's a nice theory.
The UK doesn't have a Constitution. Maybe that's why Tony Blair and the psuedo labour party are getting away with ripping off more basic freedoms than George Bush and his neo-conservative mates are getting away with over here. The British of two hundred years ago would not have stood for the government having a man follow them everywhere they went. The follower and the government would soon be history. Nowadays the very concept of a free man in the UK is becoming history.
The preamble to the Constitution of the USA says:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "
The preamble to the Constitution has the words: "Provide for the common defense", then after something else it says: "And secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
In my humble opinion, in regard to spying on American citizens, it means that the Government has every right to protect us, but in protecting us it has no right to spy on us. It's as simple as that. However, it's not really that simple, and that's why we have the greatest legal minds in the world trying to find another meaning while equally brilliant minds try to stop them. Of course, they often change sides according to what they want the Constitution to actually mean, but it's obvious to me that what the ornery old British blokes said was exactly what they meant.
Another ornery old British bloke from times past once said: "The law is an ass." I wonder what Mark Twain would think of the law today?
The end result is that a bunch of half drunk and very pissed off Brits wrote a draft a couple of hundred years ago telling their government to go to hell; their thoughts have been frozen in time, and the only way to understand what they actually meant is to have a few beers.
In these days of political correctness it's obvious to me that the last true straight talking kiss my ass Brit probably died of cirrosis of the liver in 1997; and phony mealy mouthed non-smoking non drinking Brits have took his place.
Here's to yeah!
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article338691.ece Blair wants to bug MP's communications.
...................................
A rebuttal from a Brit. Steve Dobson writes:
Interesting theory about the British and true our roads have become littered with speed cameras that take photos as evidence of such heinous crimes as doing 42mph in a 30 zone. Instant £60 fine and 3 points on your driving license get 12 points and get a driving ban for a minimum of three months. Then there's our town and city centres that are now littered with CCTV cameras that can follow ne'er-do-wells as they careen drunkenly around causing havoc, mugging, fighting, vomiting in the street and other highly anti-social activities. The cameras are to make Joe Public feel safe and protected or so we're told. The start of George Orwell's prophesised nightmare of Big Brother, Room 101 and a state run by a dark faceless entity? Maybe yes, to an outsider viewed through their highly sanitized press and media but to a citizen of these sceptred isles most likely a great big No, actually old boy!
No insult intended but most Americans view the British as a version of themselves, other than we speak versions of English, although mine is spelt and pronounced correctly, not true. To fully understand the British, is to be British. We are not the baddies in red coats that you guys fought against 230 years ago, we're not the people that created and ruled the biggest empire in recorded history, we are not the guys that stood alone against the Nazis for two years whilst the rest of the world realised what was going on. The British now are not even the British that I knew growing up in the back streets of Liverpool in the '60's. Truth is that being British means constant change and evolvement. Which brings us to the basic question "What is British?"
It's a constant question in the media these days as we've just realised that, after years of being told that our Imperial past shouldn't be celebrated, for fear of causing distress or insult, to those we once ruled, its not a sin to be patriotic. It now seems that after years of watching flag waving Americans, hands clutched to their hearts singing about a star spangled banner. We are to reclaim the Union Jack as our national symbol and questions are being asked in the newspapers along the lines of "Name a iconic symbol the represents Britain?" The resultant answers have caused debate and amusement. There's the obvious, such as Big Ben, Buckingham Palace, Guards in their bearskin helmets, British policemen, Bowler hats and umbrellas. But then there are the ones that mean nothing to people outside these wind swept islands. (Unless you're British born) Ever heard of HP sauce, Coleman's Mustard, The Angel of the North or playing conkers?
As I said earlier British doesn't exist, as it's a constantly changing state, we're not a race of people we're a mongrel race. We used to be Pictish, then Celtic, then we were Roman, then Germanic Angles, Saxons and Jutes. For a while we were Scandinavian Vikings and then we had a bit of French, via Norway injected into our veins. Those are just the ones that we recognise; we've also had smaller invasions.
I truly believe that one trait that we still have is our capacity to be bloody minded, we don't get conned too easily, the present debacles in Iran and Afghanistan not withstanding, and our inbred sense of fair play. So yes the "British" who lead the "American" revolution had that bloody-minded trait and wanted fair play. I wonder how the world would be now, if old King George III had recognised the claims of those "damned colonials" and the 13 states had remained part of the British Commonwealth. Now there's thought.
My friend Doug who lives down near London says being British is about:
Driving a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian Beer. Then, on the way home, grabbing an Indian, Thai, Chinese or a Turkish kebab. When home, sit on your Swedish furniture and watch shit American TV on a Japanese telly.
The most British thing of all?
Suspicion of anything foreign
Hang on, that sounds a suspiciously Yankee trait as well, maybe we are closer to each other than I'm willing to admit. How do I go about getting a green card again??
Cheers
Steve
The reasoning behind my sons opinion is that the U.S. Constitution froze the attitude of Britain, in place, over 200 years ago. It happened because a group of British men got pissed off at the British government, told it to go to hell, and wrote America's Constitution. At that time the British wanted, and even demanded, much more freedom than the British seem to want now.
As such, the founding fathers wrote The Constitution representing the British attitude toward personal freedoms, and the role of government, that was held by the British around two hundred years ago. The founding fathers wrote the American Constitution in the spirit of the British attitude that prevailed at that time, hence the attitude of the British, at that time, was frozen in place for all time in the USA.
It's a nice theory.
The UK doesn't have a Constitution. Maybe that's why Tony Blair and the psuedo labour party are getting away with ripping off more basic freedoms than George Bush and his neo-conservative mates are getting away with over here. The British of two hundred years ago would not have stood for the government having a man follow them everywhere they went. The follower and the government would soon be history. Nowadays the very concept of a free man in the UK is becoming history.
The preamble to the Constitution of the USA says:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "
The preamble to the Constitution has the words: "Provide for the common defense", then after something else it says: "And secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
In my humble opinion, in regard to spying on American citizens, it means that the Government has every right to protect us, but in protecting us it has no right to spy on us. It's as simple as that. However, it's not really that simple, and that's why we have the greatest legal minds in the world trying to find another meaning while equally brilliant minds try to stop them. Of course, they often change sides according to what they want the Constitution to actually mean, but it's obvious to me that what the ornery old British blokes said was exactly what they meant.
Another ornery old British bloke from times past once said: "The law is an ass." I wonder what Mark Twain would think of the law today?
The end result is that a bunch of half drunk and very pissed off Brits wrote a draft a couple of hundred years ago telling their government to go to hell; their thoughts have been frozen in time, and the only way to understand what they actually meant is to have a few beers.
In these days of political correctness it's obvious to me that the last true straight talking kiss my ass Brit probably died of cirrosis of the liver in 1997; and phony mealy mouthed non-smoking non drinking Brits have took his place.
Here's to yeah!
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article338691.ece Blair wants to bug MP's communications.
...................................
A rebuttal from a Brit. Steve Dobson writes:
Interesting theory about the British and true our roads have become littered with speed cameras that take photos as evidence of such heinous crimes as doing 42mph in a 30 zone. Instant £60 fine and 3 points on your driving license get 12 points and get a driving ban for a minimum of three months. Then there's our town and city centres that are now littered with CCTV cameras that can follow ne'er-do-wells as they careen drunkenly around causing havoc, mugging, fighting, vomiting in the street and other highly anti-social activities. The cameras are to make Joe Public feel safe and protected or so we're told. The start of George Orwell's prophesised nightmare of Big Brother, Room 101 and a state run by a dark faceless entity? Maybe yes, to an outsider viewed through their highly sanitized press and media but to a citizen of these sceptred isles most likely a great big No, actually old boy!
No insult intended but most Americans view the British as a version of themselves, other than we speak versions of English, although mine is spelt and pronounced correctly, not true. To fully understand the British, is to be British. We are not the baddies in red coats that you guys fought against 230 years ago, we're not the people that created and ruled the biggest empire in recorded history, we are not the guys that stood alone against the Nazis for two years whilst the rest of the world realised what was going on. The British now are not even the British that I knew growing up in the back streets of Liverpool in the '60's. Truth is that being British means constant change and evolvement. Which brings us to the basic question "What is British?"
It's a constant question in the media these days as we've just realised that, after years of being told that our Imperial past shouldn't be celebrated, for fear of causing distress or insult, to those we once ruled, its not a sin to be patriotic. It now seems that after years of watching flag waving Americans, hands clutched to their hearts singing about a star spangled banner. We are to reclaim the Union Jack as our national symbol and questions are being asked in the newspapers along the lines of "Name a iconic symbol the represents Britain?" The resultant answers have caused debate and amusement. There's the obvious, such as Big Ben, Buckingham Palace, Guards in their bearskin helmets, British policemen, Bowler hats and umbrellas. But then there are the ones that mean nothing to people outside these wind swept islands. (Unless you're British born) Ever heard of HP sauce, Coleman's Mustard, The Angel of the North or playing conkers?
As I said earlier British doesn't exist, as it's a constantly changing state, we're not a race of people we're a mongrel race. We used to be Pictish, then Celtic, then we were Roman, then Germanic Angles, Saxons and Jutes. For a while we were Scandinavian Vikings and then we had a bit of French, via Norway injected into our veins. Those are just the ones that we recognise; we've also had smaller invasions.
I truly believe that one trait that we still have is our capacity to be bloody minded, we don't get conned too easily, the present debacles in Iran and Afghanistan not withstanding, and our inbred sense of fair play. So yes the "British" who lead the "American" revolution had that bloody-minded trait and wanted fair play. I wonder how the world would be now, if old King George III had recognised the claims of those "damned colonials" and the 13 states had remained part of the British Commonwealth. Now there's thought.
My friend Doug who lives down near London says being British is about:
Driving a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian Beer. Then, on the way home, grabbing an Indian, Thai, Chinese or a Turkish kebab. When home, sit on your Swedish furniture and watch shit American TV on a Japanese telly.
The most British thing of all?
Suspicion of anything foreign
Hang on, that sounds a suspiciously Yankee trait as well, maybe we are closer to each other than I'm willing to admit. How do I go about getting a green card again??
Cheers
Steve
posted by WaltsWorld at
8:13 PM
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